139 points by bensouthwood 5 days ago | 60 comments on HN
| Mild positive
Contested
Low agreement (3 models)
Editorial · v3.7· 2026-03-15 22:54:36 0
Summary Education & Cultural Knowledge Acknowledges
This long-form article on the botanical history of cultivated vegetables exemplifies informed public discourse and educational contribution by presenting detailed scientific and historical information on agricultural knowledge and human innovation. The content engages positively with rights to education, cultural participation, and food security, though the Substack subscription model creates stratified information access that tensions universal access principles. The publication's mission and editorial approach suggest commitment to substantive public knowledge on socially significant topics, modestly supported by domain-level indicators favoring free expression while constrained by freemium access barriers.
Rights Tensions1 pair
Art 19 ↔ Art 25 —Subscription paywall limits universal access to food security knowledge while enabling sustained publication of substantive information.
I already knew about this phylogenetic tree (although I have always heard the common ancestor be called the "wild mustard", not wild cabbage), but the article was quite interesting.
I only wish that as a PSA, they had included the reminder to people over 30 years old who hate Brussels sprouts, that the delicious ones you can eat today are not the ones they hated in their youth, and if you haven't had sprouts in years you might want to give them a second try (salted, oiled and baked, not boiled or steamed of course!)
When I read the title, I immediately though, I think this is going to be about Brussel sprouts etc. as I just saw a video [0] that mentions the same lineage. The video is part of the series about the evolution of the flagellum, which is really well made.
Not nearly as drastic as the cabbage case, but to me it’s also interesting that there are three ancestral, wild species of citrus fruit – mandarin, pomelo, and citron – and all the popular modern cultivars are hybrids of those three.
For some reason, there was a whole series of brassica oleracea memes going around in 2020 (does that make it a meta-meme? or is that the meme itself, and the images are just instances of the meme?), and they're still wonderful.
Just image-search "brassica memes" at your favorite engine.
If you liked this, you will be delighted to learn about the “Triangle of U”: the common brassicas are not just tetraploid, they are Frankensteinian mashups of earlier diploid species with different numbers of chromosomes!
It looks a lot like a flatter "green/european" cabbage. It's leaves and stems are finer and softer than a European cabbage, while still being pretty crunchy (as opposed to napa). Compared to European cabbage, you could actually just stir fry these.
Gai lan is just one variety of "Chinese broccoli" - there are multiple varieties with different stem thicknesses, and "branching ratios". This will let you pick to suit your preferred level of crunch and leaf area to coat with sauce =)
And finally, all of the bok choys are also part of this family.
This doesn't mention the one brassica that I hate more than any. Bastard cabbage. Like the other brassicas it is edible from flower/fruit to the root. Goes good in salads, etc. Unfortunately it is an invasive species here in Texas that quickly overwhelms native wildflowers. It appears along roads where work has been completed and rights-of-way reseeded using non-native grass mixes.
It is native to Africa and southern Europe I think but is invasive here in the US.
I first found some in my yard a couple of years after I bought a load of "topsoil" from a local materials provider. Not only was the product not a topsoil (it was river channel fine silt that is mostly clay-like particles with zero permeability and zero organic content) but the first thing to sprout on the pile of left-over soil was a tall plant with yellow flowers. There was a single plant that year. I had no idea what it was and asked one of my kids to ID it after it had already dried. Since it wasn't flowering stage when I asked they couldn't get a clear ID so i left it in place. That was a huge mistake. It produced uncounted quantities of small seeds that fell all around it and evidently birds loved it.
The second year saw it sprout up in a 10m radius around the original plant with isolated outliers. Again, I did not know what it was so I let it grow until summer (it is a late winter/early spring plant, one of the first to sprout) by which time it was obvious that this thing was gonna take over if I didn't do something. I sent a few more photos to my kid and this time I got the bad news - bastard cabbage.
With that info in hand I began implementing my eradication plan. I watered in all the plants that I could locate. It was summer and the ground is very dry and soil is hard here at home. With the soil nice and wet I pulled or dug every one of those bastards that I could find knowing that I would be doing the same thing again next year.
So far it has been several years of walking the property, pulling these bastard cabbages as I find them. So far this year I have less than a dozen plants but the season is young. I have found about half of those plants growing where previously I had never seen any and the others were growing in the original affected area.
Just like my years-long battle against St Augustine grass, stickers, goatheads, and Johnson grass I will win. I have eradicated those plants from my property though it took more than a decade to completely eliminate the Johnson grass.
Once I can identify the plant at each growth stage its days are numbered, sometimes with three or four digits, but I will win in the end.
It's amazing that it only takes centuries. Under natural selection, species traits stay relatively stable for thousands or even millions of years.
I suppose that means natural selection tends to have more of a pronounced effect when there has been a severe environmental change that wipes out a large fraction of the population and leaves behind only those with adaptive mutations. Otherwise, the adaptive mutation stays in the population but doesn't proliferate excessively. Selective breeding can then be interpreted as an extreme version of environmental stress.
I had previously imagined that evolution was a slow process but it seems that its more of a punctuated equilibrium, where when changes occur they occur quickly.
(Caveat: not a biologist, just a layperson speculating and learning.)
Genes of the wild cabbage: "yah man, we will turn this leafy body into whatever you like. That you are going to eat it? We don't mind a bit, as long as you make more copies of us; that's all that matters."
I think the sprouts trauma is the result of picking the wrong cooking method.
I was so surprised when I tried baked sprouts for the first time (use a really host cast iron skilet for even better results) that I started to believe that every vegetable can be delicious as long as you bake it!
The roots of the young Brachychiton acuminatus can be cooked in ashes and eaten like a sweet potato .. but despite the vast number of rocks in its native habitat .. not a single brassica oleracia will be found by throwing them.
Great point about brussel sprouts and it's truly fascinating on a number of levels. I think we're all tempted to believe the story that our palate just changes as we get older. But that's not what happened with brussel sprouts! They became cultivated differently to change their taste and so the modern ones we have are not the bitter ones we had as a kid.
I think there's a similar story for, say, canned peas which used to be nasty and made me think I didn't like peas. Granted I still don't consider myself someone who likes peas from a can, but fresh peas in a salad, or flash frozen peas in a bag that stores in the freezer, I'm open to those.
That's not to say that our tastes don't change, but brussel sprouts are kind of a fascinating mirage where it seems like the change might have been growing up into adulthood when really it was a chang in cultivation. These are just off the top of my head, but over the past couple of decades, there's been a quiet revolution in mass produced veggies on a number of levels that in each of their individual instances trace back to fascinating stories of science.
Speaking of Asian vegetables, Brassica oleracea tends to get all the love because Europeans are more familiar with cauliflower, kale, Brussels sprouts, collard greens, etc but Brassica rapa is perhaps even more diverse.
You might be familiar with turnips, bok choy, napa cabbage, and mizuna, but within Asia, there are a dizzying array of vegetables barely documented that are all derivatives of this weedy mustard.
Vegetables like Jima Turnip of the Tibetan plateau, Taicai, Wutacai, etc are hardly documented in English at all
It doesn't "take" centuries, it's just been going on for centuries. You can probably develop a very unique cultivar in a single lifetime. This is quite common in the horticultural industry and is especially feasible with weedy species like Brassicas
And the stability of the traits is mostly due to careful management. Most of these vegetables will very easily hybridize
In the Andes there are still traditional farmers that maintain over 300 varieties of potatoes. Each one has a name and a history. Some are only ornamental, some are only eaten in soups, some are medicinal, some are a bright purple, some are extremely long, some look like giant pinecones. Just look at the incredible images in this article
Citrons, Pomelos, and True Manderins are the progenitor wild species that were hybridized to give us everything from clementines to grapefruit to key limes and more
Since we've been eating oxalic acid for millions of years I highly doubt it's a problem for us. In fact it acts as an antioxidant, can inhibit the growth of many bacteria/fungi, and can bind to heavy metals like lead and mercury.
It makes sense to avoid stuff high in oxalic acid if you're at risk of kidney stones but it seems silly to worry about something we've been consuming for longer than we've been a species for
Article exemplifies informed public discourse by presenting detailed historical and scientific information about agricultural development. Contributes to collective knowledge and informed opinion formation.
FW Ratio: 50%
Observable Facts
Page presents detailed editorial narrative on botanical history and selective breeding, demonstrating commitment to substantive public information.
Substack paywall restricts full content access to subscribers, limiting universal right to seek and receive information.
Domain mission (per DCP) emphasizes long-form journalism and research on social/economic significance.
Inferences
Editorial content advances informed public discourse by providing detailed, researched information on agricultural knowledge and human agency.
Subscription model restricts universal access to full information, creating information stratification that tensions Article 19's universal framing.
Publication model balances content quality and sustainability against equitable information access.
Article exemplifies right to education by presenting detailed scientific and historical knowledge about botanical development, selective breeding, and human innovation. Content supports informed educational access.
Content addresses food and nutrition security by explaining how botanical knowledge expanded diverse vegetable availability, contributing to understanding of nutrition and food access foundations.
FW Ratio: 50%
Observable Facts
Article explains how selective breeding increased availability of diverse nutritious vegetables.
Substack platform employs semantic HTML structure supporting baseline accessibility.
Freemium access model limits some readers' ability to access full nutritional/food security information.
Inferences
Content contributes to public understanding of how agricultural knowledge advances food security and nutritional capacity.
Baseline accessibility implementation meets minimum standards but does not provide enhanced accommodation.
Subscription barrier creates unequal access to food security knowledge resources.
Content engages cultural and scientific participation by explaining agricultural knowledge and botanical heritage across human history, supporting participation in scientific and cultural advancement.
FW Ratio: 50%
Observable Facts
Article traces botanical and culinary heritage across historical periods and civilizations.
Content frames selective breeding as shared human cultural and scientific practice.
Inferences
Explaining agricultural knowledge as collective human heritage supports right to participate in scientific and cultural life.
Historical framing positions readers as participants in ongoing human knowledge tradition.
Article frames agricultural knowledge and human development within a narrative of progress and diversification, consistent with Preamble values of advancing human dignity through understanding.
FW Ratio: 50%
Observable Facts
Page title states 'How an unappetizing shrub became dozens of different vegetables', framing selective breeding as human achievement.
Content presents narrative of botanical transformation and culinary development across centuries.
Inferences
Framing agricultural innovation as human progress implicitly values the dignity of advancing human knowledge and capability.
The narrative centers human agency in reshaping natural resources for collective benefit.
Content implicitly addresses social and economic development by explaining how agricultural innovation has advanced human food security and nutritional capacity across centuries.
FW Ratio: 50%
Observable Facts
Article narrative traces how selective breeding expanded human access to diverse nutritious vegetables.
Inferences
Explaining agricultural knowledge transfer and innovation indirectly supports collective development capacity and social progress.
Content acknowledges humans as rational agents capable of intentional selective breeding and knowledge transfer, consistent with equal dignity premise.
FW Ratio: 50%
Observable Facts
Article describes selective breeding as deliberate human practice requiring observation and decision-making.
Inferences
Treating humans as agents capable of rational horticultural innovation implicitly recognizes their dignity as thinking beings.
No privacy policy or data handling information accessible from provided content.
Terms of Service
—
No terms of service information accessible from provided content.
Identity & Mission
Mission
+0.10
Article 19
Works in Progress describes itself as publishing long-form journalism and research on topics of social and economic significance, suggesting commitment to informed public discourse.
Editorial Code
—
No explicit editorial guidelines or corrections policy visible in provided content.
Ownership
—
Ownership and funding structure not disclosed in provided content.
Access & Distribution
Access Model
-0.08
Article 19 Article 25
Substack-based freemium model with subscription paywall limits universal access to full content; does not obstruct article access severely but creates stratified information access.
Ad/Tracking
-0.05
Article 12
Substack platform employs standard tracking mechanisms (Google Fonts, analytics); minor privacy concern relative to baseline web practice.
Accessibility
+0.05
Article 25
Substack-based publication uses semantic HTML but font-loading approach and CSS architecture suggest baseline accessibility compliance without exceptional accommodation features.
Substack freemium model creates stratified access: free preview with paywall for full content. DCP notes -0.08 modifier for access_model affecting Article 19; mission modifier +0.1 notes commitment to long-form journalism on socially significant topics.
Substack platform employs standard web tracking (Google Fonts, analytics); DCP modifier notes -0.05 for ad_tracking affecting Article 12, indicating minor privacy concern from tracking mechanisms.
