Normille 2022-01-19 17:14 UTC link

Is this for real? I've not received that email from Google.

If so, I guess it's time to setup my own mailserver. I've been meaning to do it for a long while now anyway, as I'm not comfortable with the thought that Google is data-harvesting all my and my family's emails. But with mailservers being notoriously difficult to setup and configure securely, I keep putting it off.

Time to get reading a few tutorials, methinks. Can anyone recommend a good lightweight email server [I have less than a dozen email accounts on my domain] and a useful tutorial on setting it all up securely?

Incidentally, I run email accounts on some of my other domains, using Yandex Mail for Domains [0] which [at least last time I checked] was still free. Im slightly dubious about using it for my main domain though as I've found delivery to be less than 100% reliable. In the past, I've had one or two emails disappear completely. Yandex's own mail logs showed them being received, but they never showed up in my inbox or any of my other folders.

I suspect Yandex have a slightly over-eager server level spam filter, which ate them before they ever reached my inbox. But Yandex's support are generally useless and were unable to tell me what had become of the emails in question, even when I presented them with their own mail log.

[0] https://yandex.com/support/connect/add-domain.html

AndrewDucker 2022-01-19 17:57 UTC link

I created a free account many years ago for my family. We've all been using it ever since for everything. So I have a lot of purchases and history in there. All of my YouTube stuff, all of my Android purchases. Everything to do with Google.

And now they're going to start charging me $70 per family member or delete all of their purchases for the last decade or so.

To say I'm aghast is putting it mildly.

patja 2022-01-19 17:59 UTC link

I've been meaning to migrate but am more than a little leery of the potential for gotchas and disruption. Any advice from those who have gone through this already?

I understand you just lose all your Google Play purchases and need to re-purchase any apps or subscriptions you want to keep. I'm assuming this will basically require an Android phone factory reset and to be setup fresh with a "new" Google account for the old email address? Is this the case?

I also understand the need to do a Google Takeout and download everything. Already got bit by this once though when I recently did a Takeout to backup all my Google Photos content: a week or so later, after I had already permanently deleted the originals, I received an email from Google saying "sorry there was a bug in Takeout and some of your large videos were omitted from your exported data". I guess you need to comb through and verify everything actually made it to the Takeout to be safe.

When you migrate an email address off of Google Apps for Your Domain to another email host or self-host, what happens to the Google Account for that email address? Is it possible to shut down the Google Apps for Your Domain service for the domain in question and then establish a new fresh Google account for the same email address (not a gmail address) that was formerly part of the Google Apps for Your Domain service?

mgraczyk 2022-01-19 18:16 UTC link

I'm a Google employee who just found out about this. I'm not annoyed that I have to pay, it's been ~13 years of free service and I don't think Google is obligated to continue providing this to me.

The annoying part is that Google doesn't provide any migration tool, but there are migration tools for Google Edu accounts so that graduating students can migrate their data to personal Google accounts. The software is evidently mostly written and tested, but for whatever reason it hasn't been brought over the finish line for other workspace users.

Obviously our use case isn't that common (it's been "legacy" for years) but still annoying to know that there's probably some script I could run to do this, but nobody has built the web UI for it.

quesomaster9000 2022-01-19 18:45 UTC link

Have been a G Suite legacy free user for over 10 years now, given my usage it costs them basically nothing, especially with the revenue they've made from my usage, purchasing via adverts etc.

Fairly recently Google suddenly remembered ~$15 in adwords spend from just over 7 years ago, for a now defunct business I worked at where I had (presumably by accident) used my personal adwords account as a quick test.

The problem is this was the first I'd heard about it, and in the UK it exceeds the statutory limitation period for debt recovery. I stated very clearly that what they were attempting to do is illegal in my jurisdiction and I'm more than happy to take them to the small claims court to recover costs and damages related to dealing with alleged non-payment and any subsequent account closure etc.

While the fee eventually got waived, it was impossible to talk to anybody on the phone (as I had been advised) and I kept going in loops until finally being able to 'chat' to somebody who was more useful than a chocolate teapot. It seemed they wanted me to input some billing details so they could auto-upgrade me when the time comes.

I won't be paying $6/mo, due to a spotty history I've had to rely on paying for domains for years in advance and relying on free services because the absolute last thing I want is one of my most important daily tools (e.g. account recovery, 2FA) being turned off because something unexpected happened - the amount of hassle that would cause is immense and could have some very serious knock-on effects that effectively lock me out of many other things.

I know, Google can decide to block and terminate your account across the board, so far they haven't, but it has been on my mind for a while now.

It's time to step-up my de-googling to the next level, and work on better continuity plans.

yaacov 2022-01-19 18:47 UTC link

> As of December 6, 2012, Google stopped offering the free edition to new customers.

10 years of a free product is not bad

herodoturtle 2022-01-19 18:55 UTC link

What are some (paid) alternatives to using G-Suite for emails?

Context:

We're a small but relatively old SaaS company.

Been happily using G Suite's free tier since day 1 - only for email.

This announcement is a tad disappointing, but as other commenters have said, 10 years of a free product is pretty great.

We'll likely upgrade to Google's paid tier, but out of curiosity, since we're switching to a paid service, we may as well explore alternatives too.

Just need cloud email accounts for around 8 users, and with minimal risk of being flagged as spam.

Thanks!

samueldr 2022-01-19 18:56 UTC link

I figure all play store purchases and similar content are now taken hostage.

Are there any ways to migrate those licenses to a "google account"? Or am I being forced to pay to keep using licenses I already paid for?

Oh, and what about my YouTube channel?

jfengel 2022-01-19 18:58 UTC link

Huh. I thought that was what I had, but I haven't heard this directly from them. It's the first I've heard of it.

I used a microscopic subset of the features. Aside from them hosting my email, I don't think I'm any different from other users. It's just me; I'm not really a business. I notice some differences, mostly in limitations: less storage, features of my Pixel phone that sometimes don't work with that account.

I'll probably upgrade to whatever the minimal plan is just because it's less trouble than any alternatives. I've had this for a very long time, so there's a lot that I'd rather not touch. They're providing a fair bit of value and I don't really mind paying for that.

But I'm surprised not to have heard about this by email. Perhaps I'm on yet another different legacy thing.

Andrew_nenakhov 2022-01-19 19:00 UTC link

I'm actually rather salty about this, as a long-time G suite user: google has considerably degraded the service over the last few years. For example, since a couple of years ago you can't rate apps on Google Play and leave reviews if you use a G Suite account. You also can't use family subscription/space sharing plans, which is especially ironic given that many years ago Google was promoting G suite (or whatever it was called back then) as a way to run your family emails on your own domain.

So the paid account is in several things worse than a free Gmail account.

mike503 2022-01-19 19:06 UTC link

Holy shit, this is pathetic. I should be grateful for the years I’ve spent on a grandfathered plan, but it’s mostly the same as a plain old free gmail account (for anything I use and the hundreds of small businesses I helped setup on it) and that’s not going anywhere. I’m slightly above annoyed for my own personal setup (just using it for email, guess I’m going to have to look into setting up forwarding instead) but for the hundreds of small businesses I setup and have been enjoying it and relying on it (and often wouldn’t be using it if it was let free) I have no idea what to say to them. Most of them are so small $6/month simply isn’t worth it for the low volume of email they get and now they’re also going to have to deal with migration.

Apreche 2022-01-19 19:08 UTC link

I knew something like this would probably come, but it doesn't make it any better. Complete BS.

16 years ago me and my friends signed up for "GMail for your domain". That's it. We wanted to use GMail, which was by far the best email available at the time, and have email addresses at our own domain instead of @gmail.com. That's it.

Since that time several of us have been using our GFYD/GSuite/Workspaces accounts as our primary Google accounts. We're not a business. We don't use any business features. We just use them as our personal Google accounts. We use them for YouTube, Photos, everything. Our entire digital identities are bound to these accounts.

Yet, over the years, these accounts are just worse than free personal Google accounts. Because we are not a business, there is absolutely no benefit to these accounts whatsoever other than the custom domain. In fact, we can't even use the new version of Google Pay. It only works with free accounts! We all had to switch to other payment platforms to split bills. Ironically, we'll have to use one of those non-Google platforms to split the Google Workspaces bill as well.

And now we're being forced to pay for something that everyone else gets for free. I'd be less angry if we got some kind of benefit above and beyond normal free Google accounts. I'd be less angry if the price wasn't a ridiculous per-user rate. I'd be less angry if we weren't forced into this against our will. This is not what we signed up for 16 years ago. I'd be less angry if they offered some way to escape. Let use merge/transition our accounts with personal Google accounts. Let us have personal accounts with custom domain, iCloud offers that feature now.

Nope. Just looks like most of our accounts are going to get deleted or are going to have to pay $6/month for nothing.

area51org 2022-01-19 19:14 UTC link

I'm just like so many others here: I've had these services for years and now they pull the plug.

Here's an exercise in how to piss off the world.

I will never recommend or use google products in the future if I have a choice. Never. Reason: you just don't know what Google is going to do next.

Here's a highly successful, multi-billion-dollar company. They don't need the money. But they want it, because apparently, there just aren't enough billions.

nighthawk454 2022-01-19 19:40 UTC link

"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further".

The problem here is there's no way out now. If 15 years ago you made the mistake of wanting gasp a domain for your email, you're basically roped into paying now.

Almost everything a free G Suite user wants is identical to the free @gmail account, which is remaining free. Except the custom domain. Fine - but there's no way to just lose the custom domain at this point.

Over the years, the Google account has grown in importance and things tied to it. It's fairly un-viable to migrate it to an @gmail account. Especially for your whole family.

So, the options are nuke all your Google accounts and suffer the consequences, or pay up.

Not like we didn't see this coming of course, but still sucks.

SamCritch 2022-01-19 19:42 UTC link

Oh this is a monster pain in the ass. All 5 family members are using this service for mail, Android phones/apps, TV, movies etc, plus I have a couple of extra accounts (e.g. separate email account for e-commerce orders). I already pay for extra Drive space and I buy movies frequently enough.

All I want is to be able to use my own domain for my family, and carry on using the current settings on Android etc. Now I'll be paying over $40/mo for it.

Can't Google just come up with an "own domain for families" version at a lower price, and make it work with the child protection features?

theossuary 2022-01-19 19:45 UTC link

I'm definitely getting screwed over by this. I've hosted close friend's and family's email for a decade now on an old G Apps instance. We only ever used it for email on a custom domain. It was most useful because I could reset passwords for them if they forgot it. Now I'm going to have to figure out what to do.

Microsoft's Family offering is way better (not saying much considering Google doesn't have one). Right now I'm really considering moving over to them. But I have no idea what the migration of a decade of email across 5 inboxes will look like; not to mention Calendar and contacts. I used this as my primary email on at least 7 android phones (the original Pixel up through the Pixel 6 I preordered). The loss of Youtube purchases; android play purchases, etc. is going to hurt. I'm sad it isn't illegal to turn a free account into a paid one when it means losing purchased content like this.

I'm not 100% sure what to do, I don't have dozens of hours to walk everyone through a migration; and Google provides absolutely no migration tools to help with this. This is the last time I'll be burned by Google though. I used to be a huge fan; but at this point I'm done. I'm really looking forward to cutting them out completely. As an added bonus; I no longer have to worry about them deciding to ban my account one day and lose everything.

ab_testing 2022-01-19 23:33 UTC link

I am old enough to remember that Microsoft also had a similar free email product for custom domains called Microsoft live mail or something like that. In fact, you can still find articles on the internet about how to move from Microsoft to Google workspaces when Microsoft killed their free product.

I think even the users of this product knew that email with custom domain is a premium product that pretty much no email provider provides for free. I am still surprised that they let it run for 10+ years.

I dread the reaction on HN when Google finally decides to kill Google voice , which is another very popular but free Google service. In fact I am sure that running Google voice is even more expensive to run than workspaces because just the cost of assigning a phone number is some fractions of a dollar to the FCC.

underwater 2022-01-20 07:51 UTC link

I don't want Google Suite. I don't want Google Workspaces. I want plain old Gmail with a custom domain.

Google kept moving the goalposts and now they tell me that I'm a freeloader for not paying for the features I didn't ask for.

khaless 2022-01-20 15:56 UTC link

On a quick read of this the move seems pretty to have a pretty considerable impact on me, while I appreciate the free service it sounds like it’s been a trap. I’ve had gsuite for a while, primarily using it to host a custom domain for email for my family. Effectively I view my use of these services as mostly a free (gmail) user, just with the added benefit of a custom domain. I’m not sure $6/month/user is really worth it just for a custom domain; but I don’t really think I have a choice as the accounts also represent google accounts with other services hanging off them (digital purchases, other subscriptions such as YouTube premium, additional storage, etc).

Either I need to continue to pay to not loose all the items I’ve accumulated in the google world on this account, or after this experience choose to migrate my whole family somewhere else and deal with whatever other complexities that means, but cement my final departure from Google’s products, including finding alternatives for the other products I currently subscribe for from Google

MarkusWandel 2022-01-20 20:31 UTC link

I have four active email users in my free "legacy edition" vanity domain workspace.

I am not willing to pay USD4x6x12 per year to have this continue to work. Looking around for the most affordable alternative for four active email accounts brings me to... Microsoft! Microsoft 365 Family Edition. Like a lot of salary drones I use Microsoft products at work, so I get a discount.

It is sad to be paying for full Microsoft Office capability only to not use it, only to keep my email addresses working. It seems positively bizarre, from the view of 20 years ago, to be fleeing from Google to Microsoft. But the fact remains, CAD$76.xx or so per year is something I can stomach for email address continuity for four people. Well, maybe the terabyte of cloud storage per user could come in handy for (encrypted) cloud backups as well.

If you can't get the employee discount, googling suggests the best deal for M$365 Family in Canada is: Costco! $99 for 15 months.

Anyone else find something good for four users? A colleague has Fastmail for CAD$46/year (paid multiple years in advance). I'd love to use that, but for four users... too expensive again.

wayoutthere 2022-01-19 17:50 UTC link

Email is increasingly difficult to do yourself with the proliferation of anti-spam and anti-malware protection, combined with consolidated usage of SaaS apps for email across the board. Most of the IP address space in AWS and Azure is blacklisted by spam filters (as is customer IP space from most ISPs if they don’t already filter SMTP traffic), so unless you want to roll the dice on config settings for everyone you send email to, you’re generally going to need an authenticated relay for outgoing mail — and your best option will be one of the big cloud providers.

If you want a secure mail service that won’t read your email, try ProtonMail.

awill 2022-01-19 18:05 UTC link

Oof, this sucks. I'd forgotten about losing all Android purchases. That totally sucks. You still need to get out though, as it will only get worse. I personally migrated by downloading and uploading over imap.

mig39 2022-01-19 18:06 UTC link

Yup, I'd pay $10 per month for my family. But I'm not paying $50 or $60 per month.

The only difference over the free Google Workspaces is the domain name.

Rebelgecko 2022-01-19 18:07 UTC link

(full disclosure, I work for Google but have no special insights here other than reading the article)

My interpretation is that you'll still be able to use your account on Youtube, Play Store, etc. You'll just lose the workspace specific features like Drive, so use the tools that let you dump that data.

ocdtrekkie 2022-01-19 18:08 UTC link

Dealing with the cloud will always be like dealing with Darth Vader. ("I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further.") The idea that anyone actually chooses to depend on this when alternatives are out there is incredible: It's simply a horrible arrangement for both consumers and businesses.

rjewell 2022-01-19 18:15 UTC link

I went through this last year. It was relatively smooth, but I did do a factory reset and spent a couple hours on the project just to be sure.

I have been plagued by account problems for years, though, having signed up for services like YouTube with a personal email prior to creating the same email address in Google Workspace. I recommend avoiding it, and just using a free Gmail account for basic usage of Google docs and YouTube and your phone.

tyingq 2022-01-19 18:20 UTC link

Depending on what your family members do with it, you may be able to get by with one paid account and some aliases, routing, etc, to forward emails somewhere else.

treesknees 2022-01-19 18:28 UTC link

The problem is, I'm not a freeloader despite having my free account for almost 13 years.

I was a proud owner of Nexus phones, Google Fi subscriber, Google Music (YouTube Premium) subscriber, I've purchased apps and tv content on Google Play, and I also started paying for Google Drive storage after they removed the free unlimited photo backups. I had YouTube TV for a time. Having a powerful Gsuite service was a driving factor into the Google ecosystem for me.

I've been slowly pulling out of Google's services as they've been shutdown, renamed, etc. This will be the ultimate drive off of their services for me. By wanting an extra $6/month/user, they are now losing out on a lot more. I'm sure that my situation isn't unique.

alias_neo 2022-01-19 18:28 UTC link

Same here, and I'm running it for extended family so I'm not planning to take on the cost (and neither are they).

I need to find a nice alternative for email with my domain that's going to work for us and not cost me a fortune.

I'm not even massively concerned about Play Store purchases, I barely use any paid apps anymore anyway I can buy them again if I have to.

Since the domain was also bought through GSuite, how do I get that out?

acegopher 2022-01-19 18:28 UTC link

I was an early "GMail for domains" user, and have felt abandoned as there are services in Google Home I can't use as a "Workspace" account.

I would gladly transition to a @gmail.com account and just do an email forward, which is why I had originally signed up, IF ONLY GOOGLE WOULD HAVE A MIGRATION TOOL. They pushed my family into Workspace as they abandoned us, and give us NO OPTION to transfer 13+ years of history.

sedan_baklazhan 2022-01-19 18:39 UTC link

Very easy with maininabox.email.

Macha 2022-01-19 18:58 UTC link

This is my worry. Also device support, etc.

petemir 2022-01-19 18:59 UTC link

I used zoho for a long time, free tier.

mpettitt 2022-01-19 19:00 UTC link

Historically, they've not been able to migrate purchases from g suite to Gmail - I've been asking on roughly an annual basis for the last 5 years. I really hope they are going to change that, although I don't buy much anymore thanks to a phone with very little app storage space.

bmarquez 2022-01-19 19:01 UTC link

YouTube channels can be converted to a "brand account" then you can link it to a different email address.

Play store purchases are probably lost (I'm in the same boat). I have no intention of repurchasing my Android apps so I guess its an easy permanent switch to iOS at this point.

wodenokoto 2022-01-19 19:01 UTC link

If you’re not using the productivity suite (docs, drive, sheets and whatnot) why not go with the little guy and use Fastmail? $5/user with 30gb or 100gb per user for $9/month

Their support replies faster than google :)

dekoruotas 2022-01-19 19:02 UTC link

In my case for a personal email account I'll try DNS email forwarding:

https://improvmx.com/

vesinisa 2022-01-19 19:05 UTC link

Yes, and Hacker News calling it "killing for existing customers" is ridiculous. No service or access is being "killed" here - they are simply asking to start paying for it like everyone else.

chimprich 2022-01-19 19:09 UTC link

> I'm a Google employee who just found out about this. I'm not annoyed that I have to pay, it's been ~13 years of free service and I don't think Google is obligated to continue providing this to me.

Well I'm very annoyed. It's not that I might have to pay for a service, it's the unfairness of it. I've several friends and family members up with accounts on my domain to be nice to them to make life easier for them or because they were too poor/techy to set up something for themselves.

I also have a few hacky things set up using free email accounts on my domain, because why not.

Now Google want to charge me cash for their accounts after I've done some free marketing for them in getting people using the Google ecosystem. They don't seem to be providing me with any help to get them transferred to a free account. It will cost me either a lot of money or time and/or social capital to solve this.

This is an enormous price jump from free. The free Google Apps or whatever it is had up to 100 users. If I had 100 users, that looks like £50 per user per year on their cheapest tier, so £500 [edit: £5,000!! - thanks, @alias_neo] a year.

blakesterz 2022-01-19 19:12 UTC link

> Perhaps I'm on yet another different legacy thing.

I keep wondering the same thing. Haven't seen any communication at all from Google, so maybe for some reason I don't fall into this thing that is no longer free? They can't possibly do this to me and not even tell me... can they?

snuxoll 2022-01-19 19:13 UTC link

This is really pissing me off because of this. I've dealt with annoying limitations on my Google Account that I created back when it was just "Google Apps for Domains" to have a custom email domain for myself and my family. The service has been plagued with limitations as Google has added new services, but I've dealt with it as a nuisance - now my account is being held hostage?

Google can get bent. They advertised Google Apps as a solution for families way back when it was announced, and they're seemingly content to burn any good will it bought them.

jahlove 2022-01-19 19:16 UTC link

> And now we're being forced to pay for something that everyone else gets for free.

> Just looks like most of our accounts are going to get deleted or are going to have to pay $6/month for nothing.

Am I wrong or are you paying that $6/mo for having the gmail UI in front of your custom domain? Doesn't really seem like nothing.

Aloha 2022-01-19 19:18 UTC link

Yeah, I' in the same boat you are.

I dont know if I want to pay six bucks a year for that privilege, per account. I'm giving away emails on my domain too. Most of which are not used.

q1w2 2022-01-19 19:20 UTC link

99% of the users of the free product just wanted to have their group/family/etc to use gmail with a custom domain.

That product is still free at other providers. We'll just be moving.

ryandvm 2022-01-19 19:32 UTC link

Same boat. I set up a Google domain for family many years ago. It's been somewhat convenient when it comes to sharing Google docs with each other and managing their email accounts for them, but that's about it. Everything else has been a continual pain in the ass. So many services are not supported by the custom Google domains or if we're lucky we get access years after they're introduced.

It's always been remarkable to me how badly Google shits on the people that are obviously its biggest boosters. I was personally responsible for multiple paid Google Workspace accounts. I can't imagine it makes financial since for them to axe the grandfathered plans. As a free service, it was bearable that my custom account was a little flaky, but there is no way I'm going to pay for a shittier version of their free product. On top of that, now I have to figure out if it's possible to transfer movie/app purchases. Thanks a fucking ton, Google.

uallo 2022-01-19 19:33 UTC link

killerdhmo 2022-01-19 19:36 UTC link

I'm in the same boat as you. Including being unable to use Assistant features or access my calendar on the Google Home devices. When I worked there, there was a google doc that outlined all the different features GSuite users like us didn't have. and the list got longer, not shorter :(

What's the alternative? Can I switch to a personal gmail and keep my personal email/domain?

KallDrexx 2022-01-19 19:45 UTC link

This is the first I've heard of this as well. I went to admin.google.com and verified that this does impact me. Glad I check HN I guess??

KallDrexx 2022-01-19 19:50 UTC link

It's not just that I can't use them for email anymore. I wouldn't mind that.

But now I'll lose access to any purchases on my phone, my Youtube purchases and history, I need to create a new account for my phone, etc....

Andrew_nenakhov 2022-01-19 19:55 UTC link

> But I have no idea what the migration of a decade of email across 5 inboxes will look like; not to mention Calendar and contacts.

Contacts and Email seems to be the easy part: you can download the emails via IMAP to a client like Thunderbird, and the re-upload them on a new account. Years ago I did this transferring from one G Suite account to another for a friend, worked very well. Contacts can be exported in CSV and then imported bia CSV, no big deal too. I have routinely transferred loads of contacts between different systems this way, including Gmail. With calendar, I never had a necessity to transfer data, but I imagine that there are ways, given that it uses a standard iCalendar format.

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